Within the first half of the yr, Scowl entered their sophomore season with Are We All Angels. Made with Will Yip, the album captured the Santa Cruz band stretching additional into the alt-rock realm whereas persevering with to hold a hardcore mentality (vocalist Kat Moss, guitarist Malachi Greene, and drummer Cole Gilbert met at 924 Gilman in Berkeley and fashioned Scowl a yr later). Moss bounces between brilliant pop melodies and throat-shredding screams, overcome with grief, burnout, and trauma from spending the previous couple of years on the street. “The one manner that I discovered to outlive it was to take a look at, disassociate, and simply have my bodily physique present up,” Moss stated in an interview, recalling a 2023 tour with Militarie Gun and MSPAINT the place she was sick more often than not. “It’s this dream-like expertise whereas additionally feeling like the hearth of hell.” Appropriately, Are We All Angels is the sound of a band who’ve reached their restrict however discover the power to swing by way of the opposite facet, persevering with to increase what punk will be within the course of.
Although they got here up within the Bay Space hardcore scene, Scowl aren’t shy about their wide-ranging tastes, citing My Chemical Romance, Julien Baker, Sonic Youth, and, naturally, Fall Out Boy as their guides. Gilbert, specifically, has been listening since he was 8 or 9 years outdated, calling Take This to Your Grave one in every of his favourite information of all time.
Learn extra: 15 of Fall Out Boy’s heaviest songs of all time, ranked
After all, Fall Out Boy’s personal roots stemmed from the hardcore and punk underground of their native Chicago. They fashioned in any respect as a result of Pete Wentz and Joe Trohman have been burnt out on hardcore, in search of an escape from the seriousness of their former band, Arma Angelus, and the scene at massive, so that they channeled their power into a brand new mission. The items began to fall collectively when Trohman met Patrick Stump at a Borders in Wilmette, turning an argument about Neurosis right into a lifelong friendship. As Trohman detailed in his memoir, None of This Rocks, he instructed Stump in regards to the band, inspired him to audition, and blasted by way of songs on Saves the Day’s By way of Being Cool to gauge chemistry.
After they made 2003’s Night Out With Your Girlfriend — a mission that Trohman calls an “embarrassingly unhealthy pop-punk time capsule” — they knew they wanted a correct drummer, Wentz’s former Racetraitor bandmate Andy Hurley, to redefine and increase their sound. “He’s the man we needed all alongside — simply among the best drummers within the Chicago and Milwaukee hardcore scenes mixed,” Trohman writes. “Everybody needed him of their band. I’m not even certain how we landed him in our early incarnation of Fall Out Boy. Did I point out we have been abysmal? Andy made us higher. His strong spine drumming made us wish to be a greater band. Quickly after he joined the fold, we tightened the hell up and wrote new songs. Good songs. Songs we weren’t embarrassed about. In truth, we have been thrilled about them.”
By way of the years, the band have reworked these gritty roots into bona-fide pop-punk hits, music movies with Kim Kardashian, and collaborations with Jay-Z and Elton John. They’ve by no means been afraid of change, daring to name it quits earlier than recording the identical album twice — a path that Scowl additionally appear able to comply with.
Within the months following Scowl’s Are We All Angels, Gilbert related with Hurley over Zoom. Collectively, the duo fell right into a prolonged dialog about their favourite gamers, recommendation for fledgling drummers, and the methods hardcore has grounded their lives.
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COLE GILBERT: I’m very closely influenced by your drum efficiency — actually throughout your complete profession. You’ll hear the query requested, “Who do you attempt to emulate?” There are many drummers I like, however I simply attempt to play like myself. But when I had one individual, one particular affect, particularly with Scowl, I’d say it could be you and your drumming, fairly a bit. There are a couple of components the place I hear again to our new album, and I’m like, “I do know precisely the place I took that from, be it subconsciously or consciously.” One of many singles on our new album, I utterly ripped off a component from MSPAINT, and I’d had no thought till I listened again after recording.
ANDY HURLEY: Properly, to begin with, I’m completely honored. The best way I take a look at drumming, there are templates. Should you’re in a crust-punk band, you play a D beat. Should you’re in a black-metal band, you’re going to be enjoying blast beats. Who invented it falls to the wayside. I imply, Dave Lombardo might be my favourite drummer, and Lars [Ulrich] in fact, come on. I simply love drummers that play to the music — and I feel Lombardo does that actually effectively whereas additionally enjoying a ton of shit over it and being himself.
GILBERT: I’m glad that you simply stated that as a result of that’s 100% been my MO. I’m not a brilliant technical drummer personally. I’m no Travis Barker, however I may do a few enjoyable issues right here and there. I simply need it to be as easy, but additionally it is sensible, and it enhances every thing else that’s happening.
I’ve been listening to your band since I used to be possibly 8 or 9 years outdated. I’m solely 27, so I’m comparatively younger, however I feel I heard “Lifeless on Arrival” for the primary time on Rock Band in 2006. I may need heard one thing off Cork Tree previous to that, however [that was] the primary time I ever was like, “Oh, I’ve by no means heard of this band earlier than.” I imply, on the time I used to be solely listening to AC/DC, Weapons N’ Roses, and Metallica — something that my mother confirmed me — so I simply felt one thing. It was one thing new and recent to me, and it’s simply caught with me all this time.
Take This to Your Grave remains to be one in every of my favourite albums of all time. I didn’t get to see you again then, sadly, as a result of I used to be younger, and I didn’t even know actually live shows occurred after I was a child. I bear in mind I noticed folks put on tour T-shirts, however I had no idea of like, “Oh, I can go to that.” I noticed you for the primary time if you got here again in 2013 on the Fox Theater in Oakland, and that was a life-changing occasion for me, for actual. I nonetheless bear in mind the way you guys began the set with the curtain, and also you opened with “Thriller,” and the curtain drops. It was lots of enjoyable, however shit. Clearly, you talked about Dave and Lars, two of essentially the most influential drummers of all time. [Are there] every other hardcore bands that you simply particularly felt such as you took affect from again then?
HURLEY: Sammy [Siegler] from Gorilla Biscuits and Youth of In the present day and all that shit. He’s an incredible drummer and remains to be enjoying in 100 bands.
GILBERT: He’s nonetheless the drummer’s drummer, all these years later.
HURLEY: Alan Cage from Quicksand. [He] simply performed with Refused, and he was such an influential drummer to me as a result of he’s a type of drummers who performs to the music, however he simply writes these actually attention-grabbing… I imply, you could possibly name ’em easy components, however they’re not as a result of most drummers wouldn’t even consider it. Chuck Biscuits from Danzig. My favourite fill of all time is in “Mom.” It’s the best fill, however I’d by no means write that in my life. It’s too tough to put in writing.
GILBERT: Inherently, you wish to consider one thing, and it’s like, “Oh, I acquired to do one thing that’s actually difficult and memorable and actually cool.” Now he’s simply going to hit it. I’ve talked about Chuck Biscuits with my crew fairly a bit. I imply, we’re all additionally huge Joey C followers, and clearly Joey C fills these footwear correctly.
HURLEY: Yeah, very a lot.
GILBERT: I noticed [Quicksand] final yr at Punk Rock Bowling, and it was fucking superior. That and Rival Colleges are undoubtedly my favourite Walter [Schreifels] bands. I really like Youth of In the present day, and that’s a Sammy band. I really like GB, and it’s a Sammy band. I really like all these bands, however he is aware of find out how to write a hook.
HURLEY: Yeah, he undoubtedly does. I’ve heard lots of people say that, however Sam was first for me, however Rival Colleges is correct subsequent to him, so I simply comply with something he does, actually.
GILBERT: Every part he touches is gold. GB is one in every of my favourite hardcore bands of all time. I religiously comply with what that band does. Humorous sufficient, I’ve lately grow to be associates with Charlie [Garriga] from GB and Choose and all them, the nicest man.
HURLEY: I’ve another so as to add: Dennis Merrick. Earth Disaster is in my high favourite bands, influential-wise and every thing, and Dennis is one other drummer who simply writes actually cool components.
GILBERT: He understands the memo, he obtained the memo, he learn it to a T, and he’s like, “Cool, I do know precisely what I’m going to do,” and everybody within the room’s going to be moshing, and it’s going to be excellent. I imply, Earth Disaster, I haven’t had the chance to see them but as a result of each single time they’ve come again right here lately, I’m on tour. Sadly, I feel I’m going to overlook them once more after they try this run with Choose and Integrity, which I used to be trying ahead to as a result of each single time any of these bands are right here, I by no means get to see them. The final time Choose got here to the Bay Space was with All the way down to Nothing, and it’s humorous: I backlined that present, so that they performed on my drum set, however I didn’t get to make it. What cymbals are you enjoying proper now?
Michael Dubin
HURLEY: I simply switched from DW to Tama after which switched to Zildjian within the final two-and-a-half years. Between MANIA and Stardust, through the pandemic, I simply went down this loopy Lars path, with that white Imperialstar package, just like the ’88 to ’92. Tama and Zildjian have been my first drums and cymbals as a child, and the primary music I fell in love with, that I wasn’t launched to by my brothers and sisters, was the Large 4 thrash bands. I simply needed to play what they performed. Most of ’em, like Dave, Charlie, and Lars, performed Tama and Zildjian.
GILBERT: It simply is sensible. I’d go to Zildjian if I may. I don’t suppose they know I exist but, sadly. Engaged on that.
HURLEY: I’ll inform ’em. What do you play now?
GILBERT: I’ve used each backline package below the solar. I’ve used loads of Yamahas, loads of Pearls. There’s one thing about Tama. It feels and sounds higher than a lot of the different kits I’ve used. I’m at the moment on Blackwood, which is an organization that’s truly native to me. I’m utilizing their aluminum package. I used to be going for a maple stave at first simply because I rented it out, and it sounded nice, however I used to be satisfied to get an aluminum, so right here I’m, and it’s superior. Your snare, is that additionally Tama?
HURLEY: Proper now it’s a Tempesta, which is a 14-by-7, however for some time I used to be enjoying an authentic bell brass from ’88 or so. I don’t know precisely when, however ’80s bell brass have this insanely thick rim. You already know what I’m speaking about? It’s tremendous heavy, and it hurts to play at first as a result of it’s so unforgiving. The vibrations don’t switch — they simply go proper again into you, but it surely sounds insane, and I acquired that snare from Dave Elitch. These are laborious to seek out. However touring to Europe or one thing, the rim cracked. So heartbreaking.
GILBERT: I’ve had my fair proportion of drum repairs up to now. I really feel like it doesn’t matter what, you possibly can by no means actually restore. Do you utilize dampening in any respect on any of your drums?
HURLEY: I imply, it relies upon. Recording, however reside, I favor to not. I feel infrequently my tech will throw a gel on the ground tom, if it’s too ringy. I prefer it a bit of extra lifeless and simply the low tone of it. However the rack I prefer to sing, and the snare, I like overtones as a result of I feel they get soaked up, and so they simply have a vibe to them that you would be able to’t actually inform except it’s not there.
GILBERT: I can sit right here and speak technical all day lengthy, so I recognize you humoring me. However I additionally needed to speak about — clearly, I do know you come from a really excessive world, be it Racetraitor or whatnot. Hopping into Fall Out Boy is a reasonably jarring soar.
HURLEY: On the time, we simply beloved Inexperienced Day, New Discovered Glory, Saves the Day, and Lifetime. I used to be doing hardcore bands with Pete as a result of Pete was in Racetraitor, after which he did Arma Angelus, which I performed bass on for the primary demo and drums with them reside a few occasions. Patrick performed drums for a pair reveals, too. We have been all coming from tremendous political hardcore. On the time, the 2000s going into 2001, hardcore began to grow to be extra fashion-forward fairly than political. The political facet fell to the wayside, and we have been all burnt out a bit of bit on it anyway. We simply needed to do one thing that was enjoyable and fewer livid — simply have a very good time. I used to be in a band referred to as Venture Rocket with Kyle Johnson, who was in Distress Indicators. I joined Fall Out Boy later, clearly. It was a no brainer, and all our associates on the time accepted it. I feel, at this level, folks don’t actually know the place we got here from, so it doesn’t appear to be a giant factor by way of the viewers.
It’s undoubtedly knowledgeable us loads in how we method issues and the way we method being a band. All of us have equal share possession within the band, and that’s the best way we speak and talk about issues, and the way we nonetheless method it. Coming from a extremely small, tight-knit scene informs lots of the way you do issues. Jacob Bannon from Converge has a Substack, and I used to be studying his writing in regards to the new Converge document. Whereas they’re clearly tremendous profitable and everybody is aware of Converge — Jane Doe is among the largest hardcore information of all time — they nonetheless should work different jobs to make ends meet.
He additionally talks about how digital music has affected document shops — lots of the smaller unbiased document shops don’t exist anymore — and the way that was such an necessary assembly place for folks to find music, which is how Joe and Patrick met and the way he ended up becoming a member of Fall Out Boy. We discovered this dude who’s an incredible singer and songwriter, and it’s simply unhappy that lots of that stuff from that period simply doesn’t exist in the identical manner. Clearly, it exists in several methods, and other people nonetheless have neighborhood in several methods, which is one factor about hardcore that’s a by way of line that I really like which may not exist in pop music. You may join with scenes in several cities for those who’re in a hardcore band. All of that has knowledgeable every thing with us.
GILBERT: I couldn’t agree extra. The place we are actually as a band, we get to fulfill and play with different bands that don’t all the time essentially come from the DIY and hardcore scenes. It’s sort of insane interacting with some folks as a result of we’re on such a special wavelength. It’s like they’re dwelling in a dog-eat-dog world, and for us, we’re like, “Hey, we will simply assist you to out. It’s not a giant deal! We’re all right here collectively. There’s area for all.” It’s an ethos that I can see sustained all through your band’s profession all these years. I actually take a look at it as extra of a mindset than something, not simply reveals and music.
It doesn’t matter what scale it’s on. We simply did the Actions tour, and the largest present was in LA on the Torch. It was a 7,000-person present. However I actually don’t take a look at that any in another way than I do with a headlining present we did in New Jersey for 200 folks. Even when there have been 20 folks there, I’d’ve checked out it precisely the identical. We get these feedback on a regular basis now, they’re like, “Oh, it’s cool that you simply guys are doing these small reveals,” and it’s not a small present. 200 folks remains to be enormous to me. The truth that that many individuals got here out and noticed us remains to be loopy to me.
HURLEY: Yeah, I see it the very same manner. For me, hardcore and punk constructed every thing in my life. It’s how I met all my associates. It’s how I ended up on this band and each different band I’ve ever been in. We simply did a pageant in Monterey, Mexico, and a good friend, Brad Clifford — who performed in Since by Man manner again and Poison the Properly for a bit of bit — is a guitar tech, teching for Slipknot, Towards Me!, and all these bands. Randomly, he was Patrick’s guitar tech, and I’ve identified him since I used to be a child from Milwaukee. All these connections have stayed with me this whole time all through my life. Identical factor with enjoying reveals. It’s saved us all grounded. For me, doing Racetraitor and SECT reveals, lots of the reveals we do are for 20 folks, and I method it the identical manner I method the largest present I’ve performed. I give it my all. It’s tremendous necessary to me, the truth that anybody’s there. Typically, I’ll have my package, and the opposite bands don’t have a package. They’re welcome to make use of my package, and vice versa. We present up for weekend reveals, and all of us share every thing.
GILBERT: The present should go on. Really, I’ve seen each Racetraitor and SECT in these smaller conditions. The primary time I met you, very briefly in 2017, was when Racetraitor performed Berkeley. Humorous sufficient, very embarrassingly, we acquired to Berkeley at 2 p.m., tremendous early, and we have been actually home windows down, full blast listening to Take This to Your Grave, and also you occurred to be sitting in entrance of the venue. We have been like, “Fuck.”
HURLEY: That’s superior.
GILBERT: I’d assume you get your fill enjoying with SECT and Racetraitor, however I nonetheless, with what Scowl is doing now, get that itch generally the place I’m like, “That is actually cool. We simply performed to three,000 folks in a help slot, and they may not have identified us, however we simply received over the gang. However God, what I wouldn’t give to be enjoying a hardcore present to 60 folks proper now.” It’s the weirdest feeling.
HURLEY: It undoubtedly scratches that itch for me. Quite a lot of it for me is the in-your-face political facet to each bands. It’s necessary to me to nonetheless be doing that stuff.
What recommendation would you every give somebody who’s simply beginning out as a drummer?
GILBERT: Simply play what you like. As corny because it sounds, that’s how I acquired to the place I’m. Each time Scowl will get requested in interviews for any parting phrases, we all the time simply say, “Do what you need. Who cares?” Life will go on it doesn’t matter what occurs. So play what you need, play what you like. It doesn’t matter for those who’re good or not. I’m not even near being pretty much as good as a few of my contemporaries, however I’m having enjoyable. Should you’re not doing what you like, then what’s the purpose?
HURLEY: That’s all I’ve to say as effectively. I feel it was Damian Lillard who stated, “Do it for the love. Don’t do it for the accolades or the cash or what you get.” It was a narrative about folks asking if he’s going to retire, and he’s like, “Properly, I nonetheless acquired it, and I really feel I may nonetheless play till I’m 40. I present up, and I put within the work.” Whether or not it’s for a band or for those who’re an athlete, no matter artwork kind it’s, if placing within the work is just not enjoyable and it’s not the rationale you do it, the possibilities are, you’re not going to make it as a result of it’s a tough world, and it’s a more durable world than it ever has been. We’re in late-stage capitalism. The greenback might not be the reserve foreign money. America could also be utterly fucked, and we don’t know what’s occurring with that but, but it surely may probably be actually unhealthy. No matter that, for those who care about that sort of stuff or not, you’ve acquired to be doing one thing that you simply love, that offers you that means, that brings you along with folks you like. Should you’re doing a band, do it with folks you like enjoying music with, since you adore it. If it takes off, nice. If it doesn’t, you’re doing it. You adore it, and that’s the reward.
GILBERT: You’re additionally a drummer. You picked the worst instrument you could possibly have picked anyway, so that you’d higher adore it.
