Birdlegs convey collectively Jade Puget (AFI), Gary Gutfeld (Corduroy, the Hello-Fives), and Eric Ozenne (The Nerve Brokers) — all of whom performed facet by facet in Northern California’s Redemption 87 again within the late ’90s — together with bassist Ryan Doria (Overexposure), delivering a surge of high-energy hardcore that’s chaotic, nostalgic, and strikingly related. It presents a hearty dose of mid-’90s hardcore, whereas lambasting social media tradition, and the warped societal buildings that exist in our fashionable world. Although every artist has expertise and status within the different house alone, their aim with Birdlegs was by no means to construct a shiny “supergroup” that may stretch and contort for achievement. “That is my favourite manner to hang around,” Gutfield explains, “placing a band along with good associates and creating music collectively, with a optimistic message.”
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This mantra shouldn’t be solely the onus for Birdlegs, however it’s on the coronary heart of hardcore. It’s the blood that runs by means of the East Bay scene they got here up in — a rowdy mixture of artists keen to attach with one another and specific themselves, above all else. Like initiatives, or their friends’ within the mid-’90s, Birdlegs’ sound is feverish and fast-paced, constructed on a basis of pummeling, relentless rhythm from Doria and Gutfield, and pushed residence by the elite mixture of Purget’s guttural, darkish guitar components and Ozenne’s brash vocal prowess. Following the discharge of their first, livid, satiating single, I couldn’t wait to talk with them about their forthcoming full-length, Visions Past the Ape Cave. Right here is our dialog.
All of you got here up within the East Bay scene and performed collectively in Redemption 87 within the late ’90s. What sparked the concept to reconnect and begin a brand new undertaking now?
GARY GUTFELD: Eric and I began a band between Redemption 87 and now known as Stated Radio. We put out a CD on Mankind. We stayed in contact and mainly obtained the itch to play, and I really feel we had one thing to say. That is my favourite manner to hang around — placing a band along with good associates, and creating music along with a optimistic message. It’s been an excellent expertise for me.
JADE PUGET: Eric known as me up and requested me if I wished to be in a brand new band with him and Gary, and I jumped on the likelihood to make music once more with my outdated Redemption 87 associates. Ryan has additionally been an important a part of the combination. He’s an excellent participant and songwriter, too.
ERIC OZENNE: Really. Ryan has been integral. Gary and I had been already mulling round beginning up a brand new undertaking, however it was Ryan that basically made it occur by reaching out randomly in a message he despatched alongside together with his band Overexposure’s new report. This was just a few years again. I didn’t know Ryan in any respect, and he had stated he can be right down to play bass if I used to be out there. I consider that was meant as a possible provide to play bass if the Nerve Brokers ever had the necessity. The Nerve Brokers weren’t taking part in and didn’t have any intention to, so I requested Ryan if he was excited by a brand new undertaking. He was. Is that correct, Ryan?
RYAN DORIA: That is correct! Eric gave me some nice recommendation after I was placing collectively the primary Overexposure report. I at all times attempt to ship copies of information I produce to everybody concerned, with handwritten letters. I despatched Eric the report with a word thanking him for taking the time to speak by means of some issues with me, and sure, I believe I ended it with a “PS: I play bass for those who ever want a bass participant,” and sure, that was hinting at providing to play bass for the Nerve Brokers if the necessity ever got here up. I’m glad I did as a result of now we’ve got Birdlegs — a brand new, surprising providing that EBHC followers can take pleasure in and a artistic outlet for the 4 of us.
I truly requested this in our AFI cowl story, however how do you suppose the East Bay exhibits up on this music? If in any respect, how can we hear that, sonically and/or ideologically?
GUTFELD: I used to be born and raised within the East Bay. I don’t suppose you may get any extra of a illustration than that. Eric can also be from the East Bay. My early days music influences had been from seeing all the native punk bands (SF, Oakland, and San Jose) and making associates filling in for his or her drummers, and so forth. It’s nonetheless a neighborhood of kinds. We’re just a bit older. Punk/hardcore music has been a lifestyle for me.
PUGET: We’re the musical merchandise of the East Bay. I grew up an hour-and-a-half north and lived in Berkeley for over a decade, absorbing each little bit of the musical ambiance. Birdlegs, to me, is a synthesis of the East Bay aesthetic blended with the Eighties, primarily New York, hardcore.
OZENNE: Ideologically, there may be considerably of a David versus Goliath thread that rings all through the Birdlegs lyrics. It’s a sensibility that has been in me for a very long time.
I used to be born in Oakland, raised within the East Bay suburbs when my mother couldn’t afford elevating her two youngsters on her personal. We moved into my grandfather’s residence. I left after highschool after which got here again to Oakland, Alameda, Berkeley. The East Bay is one thing actually distinctive. Even outdoors of simply the punk/hardcore scene, there may be such an total profound voice coming from numerous cultures. It’s simply pervasive and fuels the considering all through these East Bay communities.
East Bay, musically, has at all times felt prefer it’s being drawn out of those voices, or these main roots of a historic Oakland working-class and the Nineteen Sixties radical Berkeley historical past. The East Bay has at all times had such a various inhabitants of residents, and with that, you get so many varieties of views, and I really feel like a basic openness to variations inside the music scenes, undoubtedly the punk and hardcore scenes. The East Bay suburbs the place the tradition was primarily very conservative values steeped in an abundance of wealth, that was what I used to be psychologically against rising up, which is why I used to be in a punk band, which is why I went to Gilman Avenue on a lot of my weekends when it opened in [the late ’80s]. As a lot as I didn’t precisely absolutely respect what was occurring at Gilman Avenue in these early days, I actually was raised in a peripheral sense inside its tradition.
This concept of producing questions by means of the communication of phrases and music is one thing I realized within the East Bay by means of bands like MDC, Operation Ivy, Useless Kennedys, Rabid Lassie/Breakaway, Christ on Parade, Corrupted Morals. It’s in my blood at this level.
DORIA: I’m from Orange County, not the Bay Space, however I used to be impressed to play music from the information popping out round my adolescence (1999-2003). Bands like Rancid, AFI, the Nerve Brokers all stood out to me. All with wonderful bass gamers, and all coincidentally coming from the Bay Space. I realized my instrument by studying easy methods to play their songs. I believe this type of taking part in is well-represented on the Birdlegs LP, and all of it traces again to EBHC bands and the impression they left on me.
Once you first began writing collectively once more, did the chemistry really feel like selecting up the place you left off in any manner, or did it really feel such as you had been beginning over totally?
GUTFELD: For me, it was selecting up the place we left off. We had our first rehearsal in OC with Ryan and Eric, and it was nice. Ryan and I had been even capable of write a tune collectively in our downtime. I don’t suppose we had been there for very lengthy. Possibly a few hours. That’s an superior feeling.
DORIA: That was a lot enjoyable, Gary! Yeah, there was an amazing sense of pleasure as a result of we had a clean canvas, and we may create no matter we wished. We pulled from a wide range of completely different influences, and all of it got here collectively fairly organically.
PUGET: For me, it’s been contributing remotely since we’re all so far-flung. Fortunately, the know-how makes it doable to collaborate on this manner.
OZENNE: OK critically, these guys are just about the identical individuals I knew in 1997. It’s actually nice. I really feel just like the three of us have just about had the identical chemistry as we did again when Gary would choose up Jade in his truck and drive him to band apply in downtown Oakland.
Since final taking part in collectively, you’ve all hung out in different bands, doing various things. How did these particular person paths form the sound you landed on right here?
OZENNE: Jade wrote these nice new songs for Redemption 87’s All Weapons Poolside as soon as upon a time. I didn’t really feel the vocals actually did his songs justice. With Birdlegs, I had already come into my very own voice by means of the Nerve Brokers and Stated Radio, so it brings a bit of — no pun meant — redemption to be taking part in with Jade once more. The vocals are extra expansive in methods, and I deliberately selected to be extra artistic coming on the Birdlegs songs in methods I by no means had in any earlier band. I’m now not making an attempt to sound like I’m singing for Youth of Right this moment or on the Thou Shalt Not Kill Antidote seven-inch or as Straight Forward’s Tommy Carroll. All nice influences that shaped how I come at vocals and are nonetheless very current in what I do, however now it’s extra simply me being me, just a little bizarre and actually pissed.
Talking of vocals, I need to give a shout out to Shaina Broadstone of Twinsign for the unimaginable vocals she placed on this report. She and Jade are within the band Twinsign collectively. I had been having loads of enjoyable coming on the backing vocals in numerous methods. It’s been a blast on this band to open up creatively. In my demoing vocals for the songs, I used to be utilizing varied varieties of vocal types and highs and lows. Just about impressed by Aldous Harding, PJ Harvey, and the early Speaking Heads. So I used to be doing these loopy voices. Jade was making an attempt to determine what the hell I used to be doing. He stated one thing like, “If you’d like it to sound like what you might be describing, let’s get somebody who can truly try this kind of voice.” He reached out to Shaina, and he or she got here in, and each Jade and her nailed what I used to be trying to do. Really, they had been significantly better. Shaina is backing vocals on the songs “The Unraveling,” “Icebox,” and “Devils Personal Grip.” It’s so good. Thanks, Shaina. Jade and I didn’t speak vocals, most likely ever, in Redemption 87, however each our paths actually did convey fairly a little bit of progress and expertise to Birdlegs, and it’s undoubtedly obvious within the communication we’ve got had round vocals.
GUTFELD: I’ve performed in loads of bands in between. Most of them had been punk, different pop punk, psychobilly, and even Americana with some highschool associates. I at all times come again to taking part in quick and exhausting music. I don’t stray off from it a lot. I really feel taking part in different music provides me the instruments to do different stuff inside the tougher music I play.
PUGET: I’ve to think about that taking part in in the identical band for 28 years has basically formed my taking part in and writing. I’m bringing in components to the songs I’m writing that I wouldn’t have thought to discover after I was taking part in hardcore within the mid-’90s.
What made this the correct second in time for this lineup to come back collectively?
PUGET: Kismet? Serendipity? Who can say, however I’m glad it occurred.
OZENNE: Kismet!? I needed to simply look that up. Oh sure, kismet certainly.
GUTFELD: Eric and I keep in contact quite a bit. In considered one of our check-in conversations, it got here as much as do one other music undertaking. We talked about who needs to be on this band. There was speak of constant the place we left off with Stated Radio. It wanted to have a distinct lineup to permit it to occur. Eric may need extra to it. I say the remainder is historical past. This lineup was preferrred and excellent for what makes up Birdlegs right this moment.
OZENNE: That’s proper. Gary and I had mentioned with Ryan earlier to Jade becoming a member of up with us the potential of beginning up our final band, Stated Radio, with Ryan doing the writing. When Jade got here into the fold, we scrapped that concept in a short time.
Once you began Redemption 87, who had been your largest hardcore influences? Do these nonetheless pertain with regards to Birdlegs — and if not, who would you say has impressed you musically currently?
PUGET: My largest hardcore influences within the early and mid-’90s had been a blended bag of Youth Crew bands like Youth of Right this moment, Daring, Gorilla Biscuits, bands like Decide, Madball, Agnostic Entrance, in addition to the brand new breed of bands that had been popping out like Earth Disaster and Snapcase. Currently, I’ve been revisiting bands like Merauder, Terror, Hatebreed, and Integrity, in addition to newer bands like Knocked Free, Planet on a Chain, Drain, and so forth.
GUTFELD: I’m just a little older than the remainder of the band. My influences come from the identical bands as they’ve. I should present my age just a little: Unhealthy Brains, Minor Menace, loads of British bands and California hardcore like Circle Jerks, Descendents, Minutemen, Unhealthy Faith, DK, and others. Canada’s Subhumans and Nomeansno. And a blended cassette tape of NYC hardcore bands that Eric gave me.
OZENNE: In the course of the Redemption 87 days, it was very clear: Youth of Right this moment, Gorilla Biscuits, Uniform Selection, Cro-Mags, Sick of It All, who had simply launched Scratch the Floor round that point, early ’80s 7 Seconds, Unhealthy Brains, Antidote’s Thou Shalt Not Kill, Straight Forward, and it’s all nonetheless there, however now with a lot extra. For me and Birdlegs, add all of these influences with PJ Harvey, early Speaking Heads, Aldous Harding, Dag Nasty, TSOL, Useless Kennedys, DI, Snapcase, Hildur Gudnadottir, Fugazi, and Ignite.
Ryan, what have been your influences with Birdlegs?
DORIA: As Gary and Eric talked about, for a quick second, this was doubtlessly going to be a Stated Radio half two, so my first batch of songs was constructed round what which may sound like. I clearly tapped into Stated Radio, Ceremony, and so forth. When that concept was scrapped, the sonic prospects opened up. I used to be taking inspiration from each East Coast and West Coast hardcore bands like Youth of Right this moment, Gorilla Biscuits, Rancid, and Useless Kennedys — all of which may be heard in songs like “Emergence” and “Visions Past the Ape Cave.”
I’d love to listen to extra in regards to the idea behind “Thoughts In The Margins,” and what urged you to take the psychological impression of social media on, as a tune?
OZENNE: The tune is straight geared toward social media and its program designs. It’s geared toward tech firms that knowingly are collaborating within the creation and implementation of social media apps and the packages designed to be addictive. The very essence of the issue with social media for me is that the intention behind so many of those apps is to psychologically manipulate the individuals utilizing social media. This isn’t a well-understood factor for many individuals I’ve encountered. I’d guess most individuals don’t perceive the complexity of what’s occurring to them. There are questions laid out inside the tune, however it all boils down as to whether it is very important pay attention to what I’m partaking with and the implications it has for me personally and on a bigger scale. I’m at all times hopeful somebody will get one thing out of those lyrics.
Eric, the lyrics ask “Do you thoughts?” repeatedly. Do you see this tune as a message and problem to listeners or extra of a mirrored image of your personal frustrations?
OZENNE: All the Birdlegs songs are actually designed to ask myself these questions. So I’m asking questions, however as I realized from hardcore/punk music rising up, we talk in these communities by elevating questions and speaking to ourselves and with others. That is wealthy floor for critically checking in together with your stance, values, points, and even who you might be. The lyrics have at all times been meant to be thorny. For me, I’ve at all times appreciated lyrics to be a problem to the listener. If I wished protected and straightforward, I’d throw on an Olivia Newton-John report. Query every part. Query your self, query my lyrics, query norms, query all of it, after which ask extra questions when you’re annoyed, like me. It’s each frustration and clearly a message with problem inbuilt.
The query “Do you thoughts?” is asking whether or not I thoughts {that a} social media app that’s programatically designed to psychologically addict me to being engaged on my display screen, isolate me extra, and primarily preserve me on my apps so long as doable. That goal is to get me to click on and scroll, reply, and touch upon increasingly more content material. All that non-public data that I may need thought was personal, like what I say, who I speak to, whose images I’m taking a look at, and how much images, what sort of web sites, matters I’m looking, all of it’s being offered off to advertisers. All of that is going down for revenue. Individuals are getting cash off my being unaware of what’s occurring to me when I’m utilizing these social media apps. Exploitation. The businesses doing this sort of program design are making billions by doing so. There are such a lot of social points round this, to do with our collective psychological well being, polarization and rise of divisiveness, how we work together as human beings in reference to each other, definition of communal house, privateness and knowledge safety, and erosion of native cultures. For me, there are enormous points to consider and whether or not I need to participate. So I’m in a course of now, looking at how I personally interact with all of this know-how — social media, AI, and no matter else is on the horizon.
With out regulation on the tech firms which can be utilizing your knowledge on this manner, we fall prey to deliberately addictive merchandise which have huge affect over the entire of our humanity. The Heart for Humane Expertise is doing work to attempt to make inroads into that neighborhood and politically round laws. Identical individuals created The Social Dilemma documentary on Netflix, for those who don’t need to take my phrase for it, since I’m in no way any type of knowledgeable in understanding these things. I’m frequently studying myself. Go watch this documentary for those who can entry it, after which ask “Do you thoughts?” what’s being carried out to you.
One query that retains arising is, “Who’s going to step up and regulate social media and even AI and no matter else is coming?” Possibly nobody. Definitely not this present administration within the White Home. Possibly a motion is coming? Possibly it’s an underground motion that begins to develop or only a grassroots marketing campaign that lastly will get to the correct individual in energy. Take a look at The Luddite Membership that started off of NYC. They’ve been pushing again for just a few years now, they usually have golf equipment spreading nationally. The Luddite Membership has a voice, and that’s a reasonably good begin. Possibly some child who buys the Birdlegs report and hears this tune and turns into moved to begin speaking about issues like the subject of social media and regulation and the way forward for our shared human existence, then begins a zine or a band or writes a e book that spreads the questions on social media and tech firms and that additional kicks off political noise and doubtlessly regulatory hearings, resulting in some satisfactory laws. Who is aware of? Generally it’s only a hardcore tune that begins the fireplace.
Hardcore has at all times been political and socially conscious — how do you see social media becoming into that custom of critique? And likewise, why do you suppose hardcore has at all times been such a gradual house for angst, total?
PUGET: Definitely social media is floor zero for societal critique, protest in opposition to injustice, and dissemination of knowledge, so slightly than becoming in, it’s grow to be the focus. Hardcore has been a constant outlet for angst, for outsiders, for the marginalized, for the reason that starting. It’s a cathartic type of music, a method to specific outrage and anger in a hopefully constructive manner. You may see from the very inception of hardcore that it was a communal house that accepted individuals who felt solid out from society, individuals who felt pushed to the margins.
GUTFELD: I couldn’t have stated it any higher than Jade did. I respect music with a message. A optimistic message with coronary heart. I’ve a tough time with senseless lyrics except they’re already identified to not be taken too critically.
OZENNE: Agreed.
How have you ever seen social media change how punk scenes kind and performance in comparison with whenever you all began taking part in?
GUTFELD: I’m not a giant social media individual. I do like seeing dwell bands. It’s nice to see bands that you simply by no means had an opportunity to see prior to now, and in addition a method to see new bands that haven’t toured my manner. I additionally wish to study in regards to the bands from the previous, to the place there was no method to get the data on them like you may right this moment.
DORIA: I’m torn on social media as a result of it’s horrible, but it makes it really easy to seek out issues that curiosity you. I used to be launched to punk by a few skaters with mohawks and studded jackets on the finish of my avenue after I was 8 or 9. They made me mixtapes of bands like Misfits, Subhumans, Useless Kennedys, Unhealthy Faith, Black Flag, and so forth. Children can now simply open their telephone and discover a new band or pursuits based mostly on an algorithm. Sort of cool and creepy on the similar time.
OZENNE: Steve Checklist within the East Bay would convey his xerox-copied listings round to punk exhibits and hand them out at no cost. He had a whole lot of present listings for every month on his handouts. Aw man, Steve Checklist. When he would come round, it was like seeing a personality you had been conserving an eye fixed out for at Disneyland or Nice America, as a result of everybody wanted “the record” to even know what exhibits had been occurring and the place. For many people, that’s how we knew of exhibits outdoors of calling each other or getting phrase of mouth or band flyers by members handing them out.
Once I was within the Nerve Brokers, message boards grew to become a factor, and we had been capable of join by means of MySpace. So there was a lot better attain when the web got here into the equation within the late ’90s. We had issues like e mail lists for bands we may get on, that type of factor.
Right this moment, the attain is unimaginable. Somebody in Cologne, Germany can attain out as quickly as they see a band put up that they’re taking part in a present in a month, and the individual may conceivably e book a ticket and fly to Oakland to see a reunion present. That’s very completely different. I’ve a good friend (Yo CoolC!) who lives in Florida who repeatedly texts me flyers he finds on Instagram to exhibits in NYC, LA, or SF and asks if I’m going. I by no means go anyplace, since I don’t have the cash, however he tells me and sends me photos of individuals he runs into on the airport or on the aircraft. It’s loopy. It’s just like the hardcore world village. So it’s a lot completely different in that sense. Native scenes are infused with individuals from throughout regularly as a result of attain of social media/web. That was once extra of an occasion if there was a large present, final present, or reunion present for a band.
With the pandemic, there was a tremendous use of social media with the bands False Flag and Shock Privilege from the Bay Space taking part in to a whole lot of people that confirmed up on a BART Prepare. GEL performed at a Sonic Drive-In with Scowl. There have been some sudden Denny’s pop-up exhibits. You typically can’t do these sorts of exhibits with out social media, the place a whole lot are exhibiting up. Until it’s a secret present, just like the one we as soon as did with Beastie Boys (aka Quasar), after we had been in Redemption 87. That present had Sick of It All and MCM and the Monster at Backside of the Hill, in SF. The radio station Dwell 105 leaked that it was Beastie Boys as Quasar, and three,000 individuals confirmed as much as a 300-capacity venue, and tons obtained arrested, together with Brian Wentrup (RIP), who missed his favourite two bands SOIA and Beastie Boys. I nonetheless need to snort at that.
The PR mentions Birdlegs questioning the “unraveling state of affairs.” What points or themes are you most excited by confronting by means of this band?
OZENNE: It’s undoubtedly about questioning. This time that we live in, with the rise in know-how and its permeation all through our lives. The political chaos that solely appears to worsen as we transfer ahead by means of the final 20 years. The polarization of this nation is swirling throughout us in a myriad of how. I’ve come to this music in Birdlegs with questions for myself about who I’m on this time. I’ve talked about earlier than that I’m questioning myself within the lyrics, however it’s additionally exhausting for me to not suppose collectively about who “we” are as a complete, so a few of that slips by means of, too. All the time, there may be an invitation for the individual listening or studying these lyrics to ask themselves these similar questions.
Is Birdlegs meant to be confrontational, cathartic, or one thing else totally for you as musicians?
PUGET: Talking for myself, it’s been primarily a cathartic musical outlet. I hadn’t written on this manner, primarily “hardcore,” in 30 years, so it was extremely recent and galvanizing to rediscover my love of writing this sort of music.
GUTFELD: Undoubtedly cathartic. It’s my outlet to play the drums and to have the ability to make the music transfer. Birdlegs allowed me to assault the songs from a very completely different perspective in comparison with different bands I’ve performed for prior to now.
OZENNE: It was a hope to return to my love of placing lyrics on music and serving to how I may within the creation of the music. I actually take pleasure in that course of. With Birdlegs, it has been tons of enjoyable to create songs with these guys. Ryan and I had a time placing early songs collectively — you understand, “take this one change half from this Unhealthy Brains tune and see for those who can’t merge it with this PJ Harvey intro.” It was type of like that. The guts of what I’ve at all times carried out in each hardcore band I’ve been in is to confront what I see on the earth, see in others, see in myself. It’s a continuing course of, and I’ve been lucky sufficient to play with so many gifted musicians in each band I’ve been in. They’re those who’ve given me a car for all of my questioning over time.
You’ve all been a part of influential bands over time. Did that historical past create strain when beginning one thing new collectively?
PUGET: The alternative, truly. All of us wished Birdlegs to be low strain, enjoyable, artistic, with no deadlines or expectations. Surprisingly for me, it’s truly made me extra productive than I’d have been with deadline strain.
GUTFELD: I agree with Jade. This has been probably the most enjoyable, low-pressure, and really productive band I’ve been in. It’s such a pleasure to be in a band with these three associates.
OZENNE: Seconded.
Wanting again on the late ’90s East Bay hardcore scene, what classes from that period nonetheless matter right this moment?
PUGET: The spirit lives on. The ethos is embedded in us. I actually really feel that sense of authenticity is there with these guys, similar to it at all times was.
GUTFELD: It’s a lifestyle for me. I nonetheless hang around with the identical associates from again then. There may be nonetheless music you could inform is influenced by the ’90s scene. Some bands from then are nonetheless taking part in round. I believe the large distinction can be the state of the U.S. and the world right this moment. The platform of being in right this moment’s bands permits much more to say.
OZENNE: I agree with Jade. The spirit of that point, albeit completely different from 1987, had on the core of it for many people authenticity, true ardour for what we had been doing, associates from that point carried ahead into the ’00s, ’10s, and ’20s. That ethos remains to be there. Maintain it actual and play from the center, whether or not you might be residing in numerous states and infrequently see each other or all dwell in the identical home, similar city. It nonetheless issues. As Ryan stated earlier, that neighborhood can imply various things to completely different individuals now with social media within the combine. As my good friend Cool C has carried out, he travels and has lower a large swath of neighborhood throughout the nation, as many now do. Hardcore is greater, extra numerous than ever. On the core of all of it, hardcore is about coronary heart. It’s in regards to the music, the message. It’s about questioning, and it’s in regards to the neighborhood.
Given the repute a few of your previous bands had for intense dwell performances, what can followers count on from a Birdlegs present?
OZENNE: Take away any and all expectations.
